Friday began with a warning from the remain side that they weren’t listening to the right people. Later, the thoughts of an influential foreigner dominated. Here, we look at your reaction to Andy Burnham’s concerns that not enough has been done to persuade core Labour voters to remain, and Germany’s finance minister’s assertion that a post-Brexit UK could not be part of the single market. We also cover the conversations Sir Ian McKellen provoked when he highlighted the role Brussels had played in helping push through equality legislation.
Click on the links at the end of each section to get involved, or head to our EU referendum live blog to follow the news and discussion as it happens.
1. EU referendum live: ‘very real prospect’ of defeat for remain, says Burnham
Friday morning’s fast-moving EU referendum live blog focused on reaction to Burnham’s comments that the remain camp was failing to reach Labour heartlands, as senior figures in the party launched a fresh push to keep Britain in the EU. He said campaigning had been “too much Hampstead and not enough Hull” and that a Londoncentric attitude could lead to Brexit.
When we spoke to people in Hull last week we found the disillusionment he was talking about, resulting in an article headlined For Hull’s young EU vote is about their futures – and it’s not rose tinted. Your reaction might cause him further worry.
See here for more on Sunderland, the “Labour city putting the wind up the remain campaign.”
Andy Burnham is so right (on this at least). Working away from London the past two years myself it's amazing how disconnected the metropolitan elites are from the people in the shires and small town Britain.
Burnham's right. The Northern Labour heartlands aren't accepting the Labour remain message. They have heard it, they just think its bollocks.....
They hate the Tories and they now also have no time for plastic Labour Blairites like Burnham for abandoning Labour values. The party has lost its way so much its going to be a very long road back.
Do the problems go further back?
Sorry Andy but the Labour heartlands have been neglected for 30 years while you chased middle class votes.You reap what you sow.
"Andy Burnham warns remain camp failing to reach Labour heartlands"
That's why you came a dismal second in the labour leadership contest Andy, is the penny finally starting to drop. When you and your Blairite colleagues were winning elections by appealing to the voting middle class, the "centrists", none of you gave a rats arse about traditional labour voters. Talk about being out of touch...
2. No single market access for UK after Brexit, Wolfgang Schäuble says
In response to the remain camp’s concerns over trade deals collapsing if the UK leaves the EU, leave supporters have spoken often of the UK following a Swiss or Norwegian model. They see a future where the country could enjoy the benefits of the single market without being an EU member. Germany’s finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, writing in Der Spiegel magazine, has said this will not be possible and “it would require the country to abide by the rules of a club from which it currently wants to withdraw”.
We have heard from many readers who want to know the mechanics of what potential deals might look like in the event of Brexit. So it was no surprise that his comments provoked much discussion.
Schauble is logically right. Norway and Switzerland are quasi EU members by virtue of the extent to which they have to comply with EU law in return for the trade benefits. A 'leave' vote by the UK could not really be interpreted as a desire to resign from the club only to request a kind of affiliate membership instead.
But the UK is a big market. We have stuff to sell the rest of the world which the rest of the world will buy, and the rest of the world has stuff it will happily sell to us. The debate has to stop being about some kind of 'Norway solution' in the event of Brexit and must start to deal head-on with the question can the UK trade alone and independently with the rest of the world?
People who think that there will be a UK-Germany zero-tariff trade deal post-Brexit don't under stand how the EU works.
EU members states cannot legally negotiate unilateral trade deals. All trade deals are negotiated at European Commission level.
UK-German trade would be initially governed by WTO rules, and ultimately by an Eu-UK trade deal, but that could take 10 years to negotiate, and would only be based on zero-tariffs if the UK agreed to uphold all the rules on immigration that the Brexit campaign want to get rid of.
If anyone doubts this, take a look at the response of the European Commission to the 2014 Referendum result in Switzerland to impost immigration quotas (which, not surprisingly), the Swiss government haven't implemented yet, precisely because they know the impact it will have on Swiss-EU trade.
Simple electioneering. Remember when Mr Juncker said Greece would have to leave the EU if it voted No in the referendum last year? They voted no and stayed in the EU. He will change his tune within hours of the referendum Brexit result. Furthermore he has no legal right to forbid Britain joining the EEA if it wishes to do so.
Merkel and Schauble getting involved is proof that they have lost confidence in Cameron to win the referendum.
Never before in my lifetime have I seen so many world leaders, politicians, big banks, multi-national companies, economists and celebrities collectively crap themselves. Perhaps the Germans now regret not giving Cameron something more credible in his renegotiation back in February.
Schäuble also said: “If the majority in Britain opts for Brexit, that would be a decision against the single market. In is in. Out is out. One has to respect the sovereignty of the British people.”
Don't confuse being in the single market with trading with the EU. Pretty well every country in the world trades with EU countries. My phone was made in China, my car in Japan (not in the EU by a Japanese company).
Seems to work for them.
I'm a remainer but my resolve has weakened and interventions like this don't help.
In fairness to him, when you read into what he has actually said, he makes a good point. There's hardly any point in leaving the EU because of say, immigration, only to then sign up to the single access market which may require free movement of people and be in the same situation that a lot were unhappy with.
I think if we do vote to leave (and I hope we don't because I haven't yet seen a decent plan to leave that inspires me enough!), then it has to be best to negotiate from scratch as opposed to trying to stick plasters over something that isn't going work properly. On top of that, the trade bill between the UK and EU will have to be agreed by all the other EU member states.
I think he's been honest and made some good points here really.
You can click on the links on any of these comments, including the analogy below, to get involved in the conversation.
But currently we're a member of a club and we don't want to obey all its rules. We have opt-outs for various things and we're not part of the Eurozone. So we're not really full members are we?
I'm sure most of our leading ministers are members of one or more of the gentleman's clubs of St James. These almost invariably insist on a jacket and tie dress code. Imagine the PM joining one of these clubs and trying to insist he could wear his famous blue polo-shirt as the jacket and tie rule didn't suit him. He would be politely but firmly told that maybe membership wasn't for him.
3. Ian McKellen rejects Brexit: ‘If you’re gay, you’re an internationalist’
Away from and economy now as we look at your reaction to the veteran actor entering the debate by highlighting the role Brussels has played in helping push through equality legislation. While some of the discussion involved talking down of another celebrity endorsement, you did find some important points.
I appreciate his views and he has an absolute right to speak them. Personally I'm glad that the Guardian published this and I'm glad that a man who is such a positive role model sees beyond the trade aspects of the EU and recognises the positive way the EU has brought people together and will continue to do so. So, sorry, but I agree with him and many thanks for Guardian for sharing his words
I'm gay and pro-EU but I always recoil from any attempt to link my sexuality to anything else, be it political views, being artistic, liking fashion or any other stereotype. And I've met as many bigoted, xenophobic gay people as I have straight people.
Having said that, Ian McKellen makes some valid points about the ability to work collectively through the EU to improve human rights across the continent.
This exchange broadened the debate from marriage rights to anti-discrimination legislation.
Only 12 countries in the EU recognise gay marriage, one of those being the UK, so maybe he's seeking to help those [mostly] Eastern countries. The EU hasn't helped in that way, it's been down to the progress of individual countries to see it through.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Europe
Same sex marriage is not the only criteria by which LGBT people obtain rights, and the EU can assist in putting pressure on countries to increase the rights there. Whether we want to be part of that, I suppose, is another question.
Same-sex marriage is a pretty good measure to how a person is recognised, but sure, it's not the only measure. The EU can put pressure, but the stats on the Wiki page show that the eastern nations are very strongly opposed.
To me, LBGT rights are a red-herring when debating the EU.
I disagree. For instance, all EU states cannot criminalise same sex relationships (okay, low bar), as well as prohibit discrimination in employment. That's a huge deal in some EU countries (and in fact is the direct reason why the UK doesn't allow employment discrimination based on sexuality), as well as those seeking to join. There's also the prospect of further protective directives as time goes on.
Given that same sex marriage is still a thorny issues in otherwise progressive countries both in and out of the EU, I think it's too narrow to focus on it as the primary market of gay rights.
Finally, have you had enough of all this? Maybe not if you are still reading, but with poor TV ratings for some of the live televised debates (you can find more reaction to those from writers who did watch them in our morning briefing) we end with some of your comments on why there might be apathy among the public.
I watched it- which was a mistake... as was watching Question Time later on- but the low ratings are because the Tory leadership election is tedious as a spectacle and no one particularly cares about aristocrats & their acolytes arguing over the most effective methods of enslaving the UK population.
Any hope of a measured, balanced and/or factual debate was abandoned weeks ago and now we're beyond peak hysteria it's increasingly obvious that both sides of the "mainstream" are equally pathetic and have been reduced to personal attacks and fearmongering to make their respective cases. Only Gisela Stuart emerged from three hours of bullshit with any credibility in my view and I only wish more airtime had been given to "outsiders" like Carswell, Corbyn, Davis and Lucas rather than the collection of snakeoil merchants whose interests & ambitions have been prioritised.
As a consequence of the shit show I'm now fully in the 'burn it down and start again' camp in that I honestly don't care if we Leave or Remain and sincerely hope both the EU and the UK establishments collapse.
As others have commented, anyone who might watch this type of programme is likely to have had more than enough of the lies and counter lies by now. The old adage that politics is drama for ugly people has never seemed more true. I watched five minutes, then switched to watch "A Midsummer's Nights Dream" on catch up.
We’ll be back on Monday with another roundup of what you’re talking about in the comment sections on the EU referendum. You can help inform what we report on by filling in the form below.
Not sure why Burnham thinks the 'Labour Heartlands' will vote remain. Look at Sunderland - 70% of people say they are brexiting and it gets no mor Lab than that. Same with the yoof... Labour has these antiquated notions of tribal followers. Up until 2010 this might have been true. Times have changed.